R. O. C. A. DIGEST
OFFICI,A.L SOURNAL Otr ROSEWORTHY OLD COLLEGTANS ASSOCIAfION
Registered at
EDITOR:
RossJ.
Ford EDITORIAL MATERIAL ro:Editor, "Roca
Digest"
.Agricultural College Roseworthy, S.A. 5371
the G.P.O. Adelaide for transmission
by
post as a periodical*'i. ,-- Lli-.-,
..r'" -- i"i i :
MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE:
R.
J.
Ford, Chairman F. B. Pearson W. S. Edge R. S. NortonJ.
RvanVolume
3, No.
3MAY,
1969 Price2
centsFROM THE PRESIDENT - RAY
NORTONI
attended the West Coast Re-union Dinner and Annual Meeting recently, in PortLincoln
and canfully
recommendit
as aworth-
whiletrip for
any member. The keeness and interestof
all members in affairsof
the Association and the fellowship they enjoy should be experienced to be appreciated. Each year they invite an excellent gueit speaker, publish his speechfor
allto
read, invite a few special guests who would be interested, gather up any eligible members in the area and see that the local paper carries a story on their branch activities, making the locals aware that Roseworthy Old Collegians are a forcein
the community. The Sunday is a social day where the familiesmix
and renew acquaintancesin
an extremely well organised beach picnic.I
am sure that other sub-branches would benefitfrom
this approach totheir
Reunions.It
is pleasing to me that at the 1968 Upper Murray Reunion an additionalfamily
picnic day was planned.A
guest speaker and some judicious
publicity
would be an additional improvementto
all branch dinners.I
feel we should be knownin
our communities as graduatesof
Roseworthy andwith
others, be more active as such.s
1 R.O.C.A. DIGEST
May,
1969ROCA AWARD OF MERIT NOMINATIONS
Award of Merit nominations are due
with
the Hon. Secretaryby
the 3 l st May, I 969. This award isto
any memberof
the Association who has made a meritoriouscontribution in
anyfield
of Agricul- turalactivity
including Association affairs.Nominations must be set out and include the
followins information - l.
Name2.
Address3.
Age4.
Period at Roseworthy Agricultural College5.
Supporting data6.
AcademicQualificationsPrevious recipients
of
this award are:-196l -
RowlandHill
1962
-
David Riceman 1963-
Len Cook1964
-
W. J. DawkinsDate...
1965
-
FrankPearson 1966- Dr
A. R. Callaghan1967
-
Bob Herriot1968
-
Denis Muirhead__l
AGRICULTURAT, TECHNOLOGISTS OF AUSTRALIA -
MEMORANDUM OF ASSOCIATION
Details
of
the Memorandurn of Association have now passed through the lawyers hands andit
is hoped that in the near future Chairman Frank Pearsonwill
be calling a meetingto
instigate the formationof
the Association ofAgricultural
Technologists of Australia. To enable members to better un{erstand what is being done, adraft of
the Memorandum is reproducedin
this issue. Members interested in acomplete record, can receive same by
writing
to the Secrelary, John Gursansky.l.
The nameof
the Company is the"Agricultural
Technologists of Australia" (hereinafter called"The Association").
2.
The objectsfor
which the Association is established are:-(u)
To promote the advancementof
Agriculture and Agricultural College Graduateswithin
the Commonwealthof
Australia and its Territories.(b)
To establish, subscribeto,
promote, become a memberof,
support, amalgamatewith,
or co-operatewith
any other Association, Society,Institute
or Company whether incorporated or not, whose objects are sirnilarto
thoseof
this Association.(c)
Tofurther
the interestsof
workers in Agriculture and to assistin
improvingtheir
technical and general knowledge.To safeguard the best interests
of
the profession.in all matters relating to appointmentswithin
the profession, to advocate employmentin
technical positions of persons who arefully
qualified andto
secure satisfactory conditionsof
employment.To originate and promote improvements
in
legislation relating to the profession or to Agriculture, to consider alterationsin
the law andto
support or oppose the same and to take any steps deemed expedient.To hold periodical meetings of members
of
the Association in various partsof
Australia, as shallbe determinedby
the Federal Executiveof
the Association.To encourage and reward the study of Agriculture
in
such manner as may be desirable and as may from time to time be determined.To purchase, take or lease or
in
exchangc, hire and otherwise acquire any lands, buildings, assessments or property, real and personal, and any rights or privileges which may be re-(d)
(e)
(i)
(c) (h)
May,
1969 R.O.C.A. DIGESTquisite
for
the purposeof,
or capableofbeing
conveniently usedin
connectionwith,
any of the objects of the Association. Provided thatin
case the Association shall take orhold
any property which may be subjectto
any trusts the Association shallonly
dealwith
the samein
such manner as is allowed by law having regardto
such trusts.(i)
To,enterinto
any arrangementswith
any Government orAuthority,
supreme, municipal, local or otherwise, that may seem conduciveto
the Association's objects or any of them;and to obtain
from
any such Government orAuthority
any rights, privileges and concessions which the Association maythink it
desirableto
obtain; andto
carry out, exercise and complywith
any such arrangements, rights, privileges and concessions.(t)
To appoint, employ, remove or suspend such managers, clerks, secretaries, servants, workmen and other persons as may be necessary or convenientfor
the purposeof
the Association.(k)
To establish and support or aidin
the establishment and supportof
associations, institutions, funds, trusts, and conveniences calculated to benefit employees or past employeesof
the Association or the dependants or connectionsof
any such persons; and to grant pensions and allowances; andto
make payments towards insurance;andto
subscribe or guarantee'
moneyfor
charitable or benevolent objects, orfor
any public, general or useful object.(D
To construct, improve, maintain, develop,work,
manage, carry out, alter orcontrol
any houses, buildings, grounds works or conveniences which may seem calculateddirectly
orindirecily to
advance the Association's interests, and to contributeto,
subsidise or other- wise assist and take partin
the construction;improvement, maintenance, development, working, management, carrying out, alteration orcontrol
thereof.(m)
To invest and dealwith
the money of the Association not immediately requiredin
such manner as may be permittedby
lawfor
the investment oftrust
funds.(n)
To borrow or raise or secure the paymentof
money in such manner as the Association maythink fit
andto
secure the same or the repayment or performanceof
any debtliability
con- tract guarantee or other engagement incurred orto
be enteredinto by
the Associationin
any way andin
particularby
the issueof
debentures perpetual or otherwise charged upon all or anyof
the Association's property(both
present andfuture),
andto
purchase, redeem or payoff
any securities.(o)
To make, draw, accept, endorse, discount, execute and issue promissory notes, billsof
exchange, bills of lading and other negotiable or transferable instruments.
(p) In
furtherance of the objectsof
the Associationto
sell, improve, manage, develop, exchange, lease, dispose of,turn to
account or otherwise dealwith
all or any partof
the property and rightsof
the Association.(q)
To take or hold mortgages, liens and chargesto
secure paymentof
the purchase price, or any unpaid balanceof
the purchase price,of
any partof
the Association's property of whatsoever kind soldby
the Association or any money dueto
the Association from purchasers and others.(t)
To take anygift
of prgperty whether sgbjectto
alry special trust ornot, for
any one or moreof
the objects of the Association but subject alwaysto
the provisoin
paragraph(h) of
this clause 2.(s)
To take such steps by personal orwritten
appeals, public meetings or otherwise, as may from timeto
time be deemed expedientfor
the purpose of procuring contributionsto
the funds of the Association,in
the shapeof
donations, annual subscriptions or otherwise.(t)
Tothink
desirablefor
the promotion of its objects.(u)
To make donationsfor patriotic
or charitable purposes.(v)
To do all such other things as are incidental or conduciveto
the attainmentof
the objects and the exercise of the powersof
the Association.The income and property of the Association, whencesoever derived, shall be applied solely towards the promotion
of
the objectsof
the Association as setforth in
this memorandumof
association;and no
portion
thereof shall be paid or transferred,directly
orindirectly,
by wayof
dividend,J.
lltrP'
a
R.O.C.A.DIGEST May,
1969bonus
or
otherwise howsoeverby way of profit, to the
membersof the
Associ4tion.Provided that nothing herein shall prevent the payment, in good
faith,
ofreasonable and proper re- muneration to anyofficer
or servantof
the Association, orto
any member of the Association,in
returnfor
any services actually rendered to the Association, nor prevent the paymentof
interest at a rate not exceeding interest at the ratefor
the time being chargedby
Bankersin
Canberrafor
overdrawn accounts on money lent, or reasonable and proper rentfor
premiSes demised or let by any member to the Associa-tion;but
so that no.memberof
the Association shall be appointedto
any salaried officeof
the Association, or any officeof
the Association paidby
fees, and that no remuneration or other benefit in money or money'sworth
shall be givenby
the Association to any memberof
such council or governing body except repaymentofput-of-pocket
expenses and interest at the rate aforesaid on moneylent
or reasonable and proper rentfor
premiums demised orlet to
the Association.4.
No addition, alteration or amendment shall be madeto
orin
the memorandum or Articles of Associa-tion for
the time beingin
force, unless the same shall have been previously submittedto
and approvedby
the Ministerof
the Crownfor
the time being administering the CompaniesAct, l96l
(hereinafter called"the Minister").
5.
Thethird
andfourth
Clausesof
this Memorandum contain conditions on which, li".n..
is grantedby
the Ministerto
the Association in pursuance of Section 24of
the CompaniesAct,
I 961 .6.
Theliability of
the members is limited.7.
Every ordinary memberof
the Association undertakesto
contributeto
the assetsof
the Association,in
the event of the same being wound up while he is an ordinary member, orwithin
one year after he ceasesto
be an ordin-ary member,for
paymentof
the debts and liabilitiesof
the Association contracted before he ceasesto
be an ordinary member, andof
the costs, charges, and expensesof
winding up andfor
the adjustmentof
the rightsof
the contributories among themselves, such amount as may be required,not
exceeding five dollars($5.00). . 8. If
upon the winding-up or dissolutionof
the Association there remains, after satisfaction of all its,
debts and liabilities, any property whatsoever, the same shall not be paidto
or distributed among the membersof
the Association,but
shall be given or transferred to some otherinstitution
or institutions having objects similarto
the objectsof
the Association, and which shallprohibit
thedistribution
of its or their income and property among its or their membersto
an extent at least as great aS is imposed on the Association under or by virtue-of Clause 3 hereof, suchinstitution
or institutions to be determinedby
the membersof
the Association at or before the timeof
dissolu-tion,
andifand
so far as effect cannot be given to the aforesaid provision, thento
somecharitable objects.
9.
True accounts shall be keptof
the sums of money received and expendedby
the Association, and the matterin
respect of which such receipt and expenditure takes place, andof
the property, credits and liabilitiesof
the Association; and subjectto
any reasonable restrictions asto
the time dnd manner of inspecting the same that may be imposedin
accordancewith
the regulationsof
the Association
for
the time beingin
force, shall be opento
the inspectionof
the members. Once.
at leastin
every year, the accountsof
the Association shall be examined and the correctnessof
the balance sheet ascertained
by
one or more properly qualifiedAuditor
or Auditors.In
the interpretation of The Articles of Association, points coveredfully
are all types of Membership, terms of Membership and registration.A paragraph on State Branches sets out the management
of
each branchby
a Chairman and Committee electedfrom
financial membersof
the Association,with
powerto
act under Federal Executive approval whowill
manage the Association.The Federal President cannot be a Student or Honorary Member, and details of a quorum and other details
of
proxy voting, General Meeting Procedure, Dutiesof
the Secretary, detailsof
auditing andLiability of
members are all covered.ED: This is a big step in formation and we should be grateful to Frank for his efforts to get things this far. Anyone wishing to forward comments should do so as early as possible to the Secretary.
May,
1969 R.O.C.A. DIGESTPHILPYS MEMOIRS - by RAy
NORTONAt
present on the Collegestaffthere
is a character, andI don't
use the term loosely; our Lecturer in Veterinary Science, Mr F. B. Hardy, M.R.C.V.S. The letters prefixing his name ur" upifor
a numberof
translations
but
the letters afterit
arenot
to be tamperedwith
althoughto
thisstatemint
heMAY
Reply Caustically Very Soon.It
isto
correct usfor
trying, that we received thefollowing
memorandum:Your
factsin
the above February '69 issue R.O.C.A. Digest are vervincorrect:
e.g.,I
- Fdinb_urgh University^co.uld ngv=e=r qonfer a Diploma of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, that being the prerogative
of
theR.c.v.s.
only by Royalcharter
an-dAct
ofFarhament. '
2'
at that time Edinburgh University had no School of Veterinary Science, so one supposes that Mr Colebatch attended the Royal(Dick)
Veterinary College, Edinburgh, founded by Pr6fessor Dickin
the'early nineteenth Century- Under the VeterinaryAct
1948 this isiow
theVrtednary (Dick)
Schools of Edinburgh-I{niv^ersity*and_ as such can confer a B.V.Sc., M.V.Sc. or Ph.D
in vet. sCiiniJ. ftiL tvt.iiC.V,s.
is.still in. th-e-gift
of
the R.C.V.S. Thus thetitle of
the preient day British Veterinarian is B.V.Sc., M.R.C.V.S.with
plain Mr as aprefix.
Trusting that this corrects the apparent ignorances.
signed
(F.8.
Hardy) M.R.C.V.S.All
this goes to-proveof
course that although "ya-canna-unnustannaScot",
they consider theyknow
what they're talking about.I
spokeof
getting Philpy back on the trackbut
Ijust
overlooked the fact,it's
one trackbut I
must add a more respectable one track than sorneof
us.We were talking about horses and the
work
that was accomplishedwith
them andPhilpy
assured me thatthey didn't
start early when they had teams working,but
at the late hourof
7.00 a.m. For pad- docks that were distantfrom
the stables 2-3 rounds before mid-day was considered quite a respectableeffort. It
wasfor
this reason that 2 sections were sold in later years, as uneconomical towork.
This was a.triangleNorth
Eastof
the present farm and an area Southof
the southern-most paddock.Other stock besides Clydesdales were jersey cows and the old English Berkshire
with
the heavy headandjowls
and Tamworth pigs considered by an English expertto
be the best he had ever seen any- wherein
the world. These eventually became unprofitable about zo odd years ago because of small litters.The piggery was South
of
the Farm Officein
the early days andptrilpy cai
remember a Swine Fever scare when pigs were slaughtered"right
andleft", thin
burnt. He can'remember shooting pigsin
the paddockswith
a .22rifle. I
pointedout
that they would have had more success shooting th-emin
the head but hejust
ignored me. One old English Berkshire boar was given favoured treatmentwitfr
the.:g
office revolver. He swears.the bulletswouldn't
penetrate its skullind just
dropped onto the ground.It
was eventually despatched
in
three attempts with a 12 gauge shot-gun.A Mr Jack
Morrow
ran the pigs then and livedin
the house outby
the scrub. He had taken over from Dolph Baker but had alot of
troublewith
deaths from heatin
uniheltered pig paddocks which evenfor
those days smacks of poor management. The sheep as we have said were ciossbreds mated to Southdownsfor
Fat Lamb production.Water was a problem and numerous attempts were made
to find
waterin
thelocality but
the salt content was very high. The well onthe
College, on theflat
due Eastof
the cellars, wastZ0
feet deep.This well served the farm area
with
water, and the old cast pipeline is often encounlered now running diagonally through the College area. An attempt was also madeto find
water at the farm and a bore commenced,but
adrill
snapped and the diamondtip
isstill
embeddedin
the east end of the implement shed.It
is interesting to notethat
the Mines Department is at this moment surveying the areawith
test bores and resultsof
this should be quite informative."Snowy"
says thatit
was coniideredto
build a dam and catch the water which flows down the Roseworthy road,to
irrigate the orchardbut
this idea was abandoned becauseof
thecost.
John Gursansky has recently suggested the same thing, as the recent wetwinter
saw thousandsof
qallons going to waste,but
cost wouldstill
be the consideration.OENOLOGY NEWSLETTER - by Phil
Tummel.It
iswith
deep regret that we acknowledge theuntimely
death of Chris Hurn and we all convey our deepest sympathy to hisfamiiy.
Chris wasDux
of his year 1968 and a big future was predictedfor
him in the Oenology profession.In
the next articleI.will
get Bob Bakerto
outline the intended new Oenology classes, plus some news re the new Winery to be establishpd at the College.WEST COAST REUNION - PORT LINCOLN February 22nd.
There was a good
mixture
of West Coasters and Mainlandsrs atthe
1969 Reunion. Natives were Hans Sluiter, Gavin Scott, Jim Chewings, Barry.Lawes, Russ Daniel, Peter Dunn, Pat Marrie (President), Ray Alcock, Bob Horne, Ian Holman, David Richie, Ken Hayman, Peter Minhard, Geoff Crome, Bruce Thyer, John McFarlane, Bob Stirling, Alan Iawes, Red Hodge, Ian Newland, John Shipard, Bob Sampson, Des Hable (Secretary). Mainlaiders balancing at 6to
1 were Philpy; David Syrnon, JeffGill
andRay
Norton (R.O.C.A. President).At
the Annual General Meeting, members were brought upto
date on matterswithin
the Associa-tion,
and made recommendationsto
the parent body on the Award ofMerit
nominations. One pleasing aspect of the discussion wastheir
desireto
assist financiallywith
the Digest and $20.00 has again been received.As guest speaker David Symon gave a most informative address on the "Importance
of
A,lien Plantsin
Southern Australia". The interested people invited from the town were most appreciativeof
theopportunity
to hearhim
and expressed thisin
additionto
the usual vote of thanks.The Sunday, a picnic day at the beach,
with hot
chops and cold drinks was most pleasant.In
additionto
a picnic, Ken Hayman and Gavin Scott offered ridesin
their respective power andhail boats and Ken even attemptedto initiate
someinto
the art of water skiing.Keep this week+nd
in
mindfor
next year and make theeffort. It will
be worthwhile.E.P.R.O.C.A. Ladies Dinner Report - by
Heather, wife of Peter Dunn, Rudall, Eyre Peninsula.While the Eyre Peninsula Roseworthy Old Collegians were attending
their
dinner the wives held a dinner, arranged by Mrs J. D. Habel, at the Hotel Boston, Port Lincoln. Special guest was Mrs B. C.Philp of Adelaide,
with
MesdamesHull,
R. B. Stirling, C. R. Alcock, K. W. Hayman, R. Daniel, W. G.Scott, J. D. Hable, R. J. Hodge, and H. P. K. Dunn also present.
After
a delightful dinner the ladies attended the theatre where"Hotel"
was featured. Coffee and aChatit
the home of Mrs Hable concluded an enioyable evening:COLLEGE CHATTER
Once agaio therb are several staff changes
to
report.Tony Nankervis has been appointed assistant to Ken Leske. He has
just
completed his Batchelor of Agricultural Economics Degree at the New England University, Armidale.Miss A. Gregory has taken the position of Technical Assistant. She has a National Diploma
in
Dairying and is seeing the world while workingin
Agriculture, visiting New Zealand before comingto
Australia.Two
1968 Graduates havejoined
the staff-
Barry Philp as Assistantin Horticulture
and Wally Elsden as Cadetin
Sheep/Beef.We welcome these members
to
the Roseworthy Staff and hope that they enjoy working at the Colleee.May,
1959 R.O.C,A. DIGESTRex Krause
will
revisit the U.S.A.in
early August to attend an International Conference on MechanisedDry
Land Farmingwith
emphasis on grain production. The Conference commences at Moline,Illinois
and concludes at Great Falls, Montana, being sponsoredby
John Deere&
Co. under the auspicesof F.A.O.
Representativesfrom
27 countries have been invitedwith two from
Australia, both from South Australia. Another featherin
our cap as the other member is an Old Collegian-
yes,you may have guessed, Frank Pearson.
We have
two
staff members leaving shortly. Ian Bidstrup, after a period as Assistant Farm Manager, leaves shortlyto
take a position in Queensland (almost the other side of the black stump).He
will
be supervising a large sorghum growing project for Pioneer Sugar Industries.Ian Watt has decided
to try
the climate of New Guinea and takes up his position in May.Also
of
interest to old ex-students would be the employment oftwo
ladies who handle muchof
the cleaning
in
the main building and new laboratories.As
I write
this at the end of March, the barley is heading very well and the clover is flowering.Harvest should be about mid-May. Around the
district
are a number of pea crops 8-10 inches high andin
flower..Th-e.result is that most stock are overfat_fo1 calving o-f lAmbi!&aq{_we144y__run
into
a few troubles.Alain Chartier has recently purchased seven dairy cows in
milk.
Our herd numbers were reduced during the drought and he is experiencing trouble keeping upmilk
suppliesto
the increased student population. Alsofor
the Piggery a Berkshire Boar and a Large White Boar have been purchased.In all
a spendingof
about $3,000.The
Dairy
Factory has receivedattention
a new Refrigeration System has been installed and also a new Churn. Remember that old wooden churn that didduty for
many, many years!Tim
Luckhurst atPoultry
is running a batchof
2,000 broilers. Theintention
isto
run one batch each year, sellingoff
at about 9 weeks. This should be another interestfor
students atpoultry.
The College vintage was away
from
the usual as remodelling is dueto
start at an early date.All
wine was sold immediately after fermentation, so supplies may be short.
G
RAPE
VINE
BILL CLIDDON
(1953-6l)
calledin
during February for his firstvisit for
six years and was im- pressedwith
the changes at College. Heleft
the Departmentof
Agriculture (New Guinea) two years ago and now giows peanutsin
the Ramu Valley (Eta is the brand). His friend grows sorghum but they consider that dry land rice has possibilities.At
present beef cattle production is booming using the Angus as the femaleof
the cross.VIC PATRICK
(1960-63) was another visitor while on leave from Darwin. He has beenfor
twelve montlrs afertilizer
representative at Darwin and seemed to be quite happy on thejob.
He mentioned several Old Collegians inciuding Teg. Donelldn and Neii Stariley.Strange
but NEIL STANLEY
called eariy in March. He is Stock Inspectorwith
the AnimalIndustry
Branch stationed at Darwin, and covers the Top EndDistrict.
Seems to be quite happywith
thejob.
He.mentioned Curly
Hill
and Chick Hayes.TED GIBBISON
(1941-50.) had hisfirst look
roundfor
manyyears.I
did not get muchinformation
from Ted, as he was too busy talking about and looking over the College alterations.RUSSELL PALTRIDGE
(1949-52) gives his address as Nareen,Victoria
where he is managing aproperty for Mr Malcolm Fraser, the Minister for Science and Education
in
the Federal Parliament.With 5,000 breeding ewes and 650 Hereford breeders on 8,000 acres, Russell should have
plenty to
do.ENGAGEMENTS:
IanPickett'-
SandraJackson; Kevin Keain-
RitaDuke;
Jim Klingber-
;David
Oldfield - ;
David Cooper-
Anne Da1y.BIRTHS:
Warwick&
Shirley Hack-
a daughter.Ian Anderson
-
recently shifted to Queensland where he plans to complete the Vet. Science course.(1916-20 :-
I 918A.r.FJ
COMMINITY
INTERESTS OUTSIDE COMMI.JNITYJAMES LA\FFER (t962-65) Box 46, KELERBERRIN,
W.A.occuPATreN,-:.
'COMMUNITY INTERESTS
FAMILY
DETAILSDETAILS ON SUBJECT ABOUT WHICH
HAVING
STRONG VIEWSNOEL PEDERSON
==Dj.strlcf0ffi l
trative duties encompassing 50,000 squrare rniles of
W.A.
Princi.pally,'';,,':wheatbelt small living and pastoral
areas. , ,, ' ,..
Secretary, Wheatbelt ,Slow
b4rning
Children's Group'=
Rotary.Wife Lorraine.
Political policies as regards social and welfafe services,
primaiy
production and defence.HAROLp SNOW (1909-19il)
'WgatqStieet, UNLEY PARK,
5061.OCCUPATION -
Retired.COMMUNITEINTERESTS *
Dunbar Presbyterian Home for Aged.23 Kantilla
Drive, OCCTIPATIONFAMIL,Y
DETAILS
'(te6u64)
irHpldroN
-
Field Officer, Soils Branchof
Department of Agriculture based atNorthfield
Laboratories. Moisture research.- Marriedneuru"rf,rso8. wir.t";vi| ^
€$*r:*-oq***wo-*
:
JACK MES-SENGEB
(1955-57) II Maturin
Rodd. GLENELG.OCCUPATION
FAMILY
DETAILS FEW DETAILS ON-
Public Accountantwith
Thompson, Saide, Mallen and Prrtners.Financial and business management
of
a large numberof clidnti;
abouthalf
farmers. Taxation and Estate Planning.-
Married,with
two children.cph
i,
F
il
i
H p,
$
$ g l{L
SUBJECT ABOUT
WHICH *
The statusof
Roseworthy Diplomates as professional advisers.HAVING
STRONG VIEWS., -;_J*.,_.*...-