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by Patrick Walsh Jan 23rd 2008 // 11:02AM
John Orloff got his break writing two episodes of the Emmy-winning HBO mini-series Band of Brothers. His latest script is another true-life tale -- Michael Winterbottom's A Mighty Heart, just out on DVD. Heart focuses on Mariane Pearl (Angelina Jolie), a reporter whose husband Daniel, an American journalist, was kidnapped and murdered in Pakistan. The script just earned Orloff an Independent Spirit Award nomination for Best First Screenplay. The awards will be held on February 23rd.
Cinematical: When did you know you wanted to be a writer?
John Orloff: I still don't know whether I want to be a writer! I went to UCLA Film School, and I had a great writing teacher who thought I had a particular skill in that department. So I kept taking that teacher for the whole time I was at UCLA, kept on writing. At the end of it I was 22, it was the late 80s, and people weren't really hiring young writers, so I started to work in advertising. Spent about ten years miserably working in commercials, until I met a woman -- who is now my wife -- who was working in the business as a development exec at HBO. And she was bringing home all these screenplays, and they were horrible! Just awful! And these people had agents, and they were working. So I pitched my wife a non-fiction movie that I had been thinking about writing for ten years, with the incredibly commercial idea of a sixteenth century English melodrama. It was actually about the Shakespeare authorship issue -- who wrote the plays? I wrote the script and had the misfortune of writing it two months before Shakespeare in Love came out. But I sent out this script, trying to get an agent, and did finally get "hip-pocketed" by an agency.
Cinematical: What are the steps that led you to A Mighty Heart?
JO: Brad Pitt's company had bought the book for Warner Brothers, and they were talking to a lot of writers trying to figure out who was going to adapt it. I read the book, loved it, figured out what I thought was a great way to tell the story, they liked what I had to say when I came into the room, and here we are. The book was not really a whodunit, and the movie has a bit more of that. I looked at it as a procedural of sorts. So it was actually confusing to me reading the book and trying to figure out what exactly happened. In terms of orchestrating it as a writer, who did what and how they figured everything out -- that's not in the book. So I had to first figure all that out, by interviewing
story, I was interested in examining the front lines of this new world we find ourselves in. This was before the Iraq war, but I would argue even with the Iraq war, the real front lines are on the streets of Pakistan. And they're not on battlefields, they're in the cities. They're in Karachi and Islamabad and Mecca and all these cities. That's where this is going to be figured out and won or lost. And it's going to be won or lost with the help of non-radical Muslims. So, from my perspective, I thought this was an incredible opportunity to explore what's going on in our world right now. On top of that, you have this incredible emotional journey. On top of that, you can have a conversation about journalism -- its risks and rewards and necessity. Three really interesting thematic, structural, emotional things were going on in this story. Cinematical: Since your major projects have been about not only real people, but living people, do you feel a lot of pressure to get the details exactly right, or are you more concerned with hitting the general emotional beats and making the story relatable to a mass audience?
JO: It's a mixture of both. That's the neverending question and issue when you're adapting non-fiction material where the people are still alive. I've now done that twice, with Band and A Mighty Heart. It's a real tightrope, because you're not making a documentary, you're making a drama. And real life is not always laid out in three acts. I find that the projects I say yes to are the ones I know will be compelling and interesting without having to make shit up. I am of the opinion that if it's interesting enough to film, then it should be interesting enough to not have to make shit up on. I'm not that interested in "inspired by a true event." So the question then becomes how to make this compelling and true event interesting as a piece of cinema. I spend months doing that, and there's no right answer. It's about aligning the events in the right order, finding a way to distill some of the events...I try to never distill characters. I don't make pastiche characters. Audiences are pretty sophisticated, you don't need to make that kind of stuff up. There's an unending quest to balance drama and reality.
Cinematical: When you're writing something as heavy as A Mighty Heart, is it hard to get in that head space every day?
JO: Yeah, it's terribly hard. I had done it before with Band of Brothers, when I wrote the concentration camp stuff, and it's really dark, really hard. It puts you in a grumpy mood. When I had to write the last thirty pages of Mighty Heart, it was weeks before I could come to it. I got past the beginning of the third act and I just froze, and it was really because I just didn't want to write it. I didn't want to make real in my script what I knew was going to happen. I fall in love with my characters, all of them. And I don't want bad things to happen to them. It was very hard to write the last bit of that film. Really, really
Cinematical: What do you consider a perfect screenplay?
JO: For me, the big question is: what is the best version of the movie supposed to be, and does that film accomplish it? Like Raiders of the Lost Ark, to me, is a perfect film. Is it a serious film? No. But it wanted to be the 1930s serial movie, and it is awesome. It is exactly what it wanted to be, and it is the greatest version of that genre. For me, the greatest script I ever read is Dalton Trumbo's script for Spartacus. It reads like a novel, and it is so much better than the movie. It's unbelievably textured, and nuanced, and sexy. I adore Stanley Kubrick, but this script is so much better than that movie. It's endless, I mean it's 200 pages, I think. But it's better than a book. Most scripts aren't written that fully, and technically, and beautifully. I'm a 'less is more' kind of writer. I don't write like Dalton Trumbo, maybe that's why I'm so enamored with his writing. 2001
is an amazing script. That's probably the greatest non-verbal movie there is that's not a silent film. Dr. Strangelove -- I almost weep at how great that script is. I guess I'm on a big Kubrick kick right now! Jaws is a great script.
Interview by Rob Carnevale
PROLIFIC British director Michael Winterbottom talks about making A Mighty Heart, the film about murdered Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, and working with Angelina Jolie.He also discusses some of the challenges of filming on location in Pakistan and working with the film’s producer, Brad Pitt…
Did you have to think twice about taking on A Mighty Heart given that it would be your second film in a row that was connected to the war on terror?
Michael Winterbottom: Hopefully, whenever you do a film you think about it a little bit and we had just done Road To Guantanamo, so there was a sense that the timing wasn’t great. We’d been due to do a film in Italy last summer, so originally we said maybe we should do that first but they [Plan B and Paramount Vantage] said they needed to do it now. So it was a little bit of a shame that we were doing a film that was a little bit in the same area and set in the same time. But on the other hand, I thought Mariane [Pearl]‘s book was very powerful and it was a chance to try and match it.
But this is a very different film about the war on terror in that it almost celebrates the triumph of the human spirit at the darkest of times?
Michael Winterbottom: Sure, yeah. From my point of view, having read Mariane’s book, we were going to keep the film very simple and try and focus on Mariane, like you say, and the people in the house, which is what the book does. We really sort of borrowed the shape and structure of how she tells the story in the book.
Angelina Jolie gives what is arguably the performance of her career. How did you enjoy working with her?
Michael Winterbottom: I thought she was great. I first met her with Brad [Pitt] and my own dad in Namibia when we were talking about whether we were going to do it or not. I think there were lots of things that were very, very lucky from our point of view because both Brad and Angelina knew Mariane and were really personally committed to making it a story. Also, I think Mariane and Angelina are very similar in lots of ways – Mariane’s views about journalism are quite similar to Angelina’s views about her work with the UN and so on. So, I think the reason why Angelina wanted to do it was because she connected to Mariane and felt she recognised a lot of things in her.
From the very beginning, when she started working on the film, she was great. When we talked to other people in the house about Mariane, they said she was clearly trying to make a group of very disparate people feel like part of a team and part of a family [during Daniel’s missing days], and I think Angelina was aware of that and wanted to do the same thing with the film. She was very inclusive of everyone from the most junior member of the crew
Everyone is obviously going to be talking about Angelina’s performance. But Dan Futterman is also superb as Daniel Pearl…?
Michael Winterbottom: Yeah, we went out and did some casting in America with all the people that we thought were possible but once I’d met him I kind of felt he should be the priority because he’s a good actor and he’s also physically very similar to Daniel. That’s important because while you’re not necessarily trying to impersonate someone you’re kind of looking for someone who has some of the same characteristics. But Dan’s a writer himself and that was important because some actors sometimes try to over compensate for being what a journalist is like.
Dan is very bright and intelligent, I thought he wrote a great script for Capote, and I liked the sense that he had another aspect to him besides being an actor and that he could bring that to Daniel a little bit. I also think he was a little bit nervous about coming to Pakistan because he was the only American in the end who did come out. I’m sure he had some reservations about doing it but I think it ultimately really helped because he overcame those worries. And because we were taking him into some of the real locations, it helped his understanding of the character and the situation as to what the experience might have really been like.
Did you get to meet Mariane yourself?
Michael Winterbottom: Yes. The whole thing was quite compressed with time. So, I met her briefly in Paris and then we all went down and had about three days in Namibia, which was the longest period we were together. After that, she gave instructions to all the other people so I went off to Pakistan and then America meeting all the people that were in the house with her. As soon as we got the shape of the script down I went back to Paris to talk it through with her and after that we were off filming. So, we didn’t spend a huge amount of time together but she was always very open and very supportive if we needed help.
And yet at the same time, from the very beginning she was very hands off in terms of content. She never said anything like: “You must change this.” Or: “You can’t do that.” She very much felt that we should make the film and she’d help but she didn’t want to be involved.
Has she seen the film?
Michael Winterbottom: Yes. We showed it to her before we took it to Cannes and she was very positive about it in the sense that you could be about that sort of experience. I’m sure the whole thing was difficult for her but she chose to write the book and obviously felt it was important to tell her version of the story. At the same time, every time you have to revisit something like that it’s not a very pleasant experience.
How easy was it to gain access to some of the real locations you used?
Michael Winterbottom: Most of the exterior stuff we tried to shoot in the places where it happened, such as the place where Daniel was kidnapped – even places where some people were arrested. But because of Mariane’s introductions, I met all the other people that were there, such as Captain [the police investigator played by Irfan Khan], who were very
co-But given that it’s quite a problematic story in a lot of ways for Pakistan I wasn’t sure how much help we’d get and in the end we had a lot of co-operation and a lot of problems. The intelligence agency was basically quite hostile to the project and made things difficult, whereas people like the police and the interior ministry were supportive
What were some of the biggest problems you faced?
Michael Winterbottom: From the beginning the intelligence agencies were following us the whole time and they would hassle the crew a little bit. We also weren’t always sure what was going on. When we started filming we thought we had most of the permissions from Islamabad but we never had exactly the right document. We were all very open about it and everyone knew what we were trying to do [with the movie] but at the same time… we started filming thinking we were OK and the police in Karachi were helping us but then after about two days they stopped helping us.
Our local crew especially began to get more hassle from the intelligence agency people who kept stopping them and making them feel uncomfortable. They would also always be there filming us when we were filming. When they eventually arrested some of the people we were working with we said: “OK, we’re going to leave the country, we’re going to complain about it all and we’re going to kick up as much fuss as we can because this film can’t work here because of your attitude.” They then backed off a bit and in the end the Culture Ministry was trying to encourage us to come back and make more films.