A. Hapgood Counsel

PRESENT

L. A. Hapgood Counsel

David H. Brill

DR. EAGLES: Let us come to order, in preparation for the hearing that is scheduled on behalf of the Great Neck club. We would like to set the pace, so to speak, for what our plan of operation is.

We will bring the representative(s) into the meeting and ask them to present their case. I will

give a few preliminary remarks. My preliminary remarks will simply be as a result of the New York District•s

reaction to their taking women into the organization, they have referred this to the International Board for action. I will note at the same time that they

stated in their original club action that their in- terpretation was all that they required. That is evidenced

by

this statement:

"RESOLVED.,that as used in the bylaws of Kiwanis C~ub of Great Neck, Inc. of the words

'man• and

¹

men, • (a) shall be construed to mean both males and females in accordance with the interpretation of both State and Federal Courts in similar organizations and, (b) shall mean both males and females as is now accepted in cur-

rent, common usage of these words in our com- munity and elsewhere.

"IT IS FURTHER RESOLVED, that those women who

have been inducted as members of the Great Neck

Club are members in good standing and this group will not suspend or rev6ke their membership.

uIT IS Ii"'URTHER RESOLVED, that since the above resolutions set forth the wishes and interpretation of the constitution and bylaws by

the

member-

ship, there is no requirement to seek formal

amendment of our constitution and bylaws from the

New York

District of Kiwanis International and Kiwanis International."

Article III, Section

7-a.

of our Bylaws states that a club is chartered under the condition that i t adopt the standard club bylaws modified only as approved by the Board of Trustees, which I interpret as meaning that the interpretation of the club bylaws similarly resides in the Board of Trustees.

Is there anything wrong with that,

Mr.

Counselor?

MR. BRILL: No.

DR. EAGLES: The next question becomes the one of admission to present their case. A letter was written to the Great Neck club informing them that

women

would not be allowed to participate in this presentation inasmuch as we did not accept the idea that they were members. Apparently, according to the

by

the club. She came on her own and is present for this meeting. According to Counsel, we have the right to keep her out* According to their Counsel, he has extracted a promise from her that if she is allowed to attend she will attend as an observer and will make no remarks or actions indicating agreement or disagree- ment; and in the event she breaks this promise, he

will himself invite her out.

Now this Board must make the decision as to whether or not we shall allow this individual to attend as an observer, and the floor is now open for this

consideration.

MR. KEYES: President Bill, may I suggest two motions, and I will make them:

Number One -- That this Board construe Sec- tion 3 of Article VIII of the Constitution with respect to female membership

by

concurring in and following the

DR. EAGLES: Just one moment. Let me find that.

MR. KEYES: It is on Page 4.

I ' l l

rephrase i t .

That in the exercise of the authority

vested in this Board in Section 3 of Article VIII

of the Constitution, that we construe and interpret-

the Constitution and Bylaws of K~wanis International in the light of the action taken

by

the House of Dele- gates last year in Montreal to mean that membership

in

Kiwanis International shall be restricted to male mem- bers only.

That will be my frrst motion.

DR. EAGLES: Let us follow that up. Is there a second?

---Motion seconded---

DR. EAGLES: Is there any discussion?

"aye ..

n

Are you ready for the question?

All in favor of this motion, please say

All opposed?

Motion is carried.

MR. KEYES:·

Shouldn't the record reflect there was no dissenting vote?

DR. EAGLES: Unanimously carried.

MR. KEYES: My second motion would be: In the

light of this interpretation and in view of the fact

that our Board Meetings are not public but rather are

private that both as to observation and participation

they should be restricted to members in good standing

of Kiwanis Clubs in Kiwanis International.

DR. EAGLES: Will you read that?

(Motion read)

DR. EAGLES: Is there a second to that motion?

---Motion seconded--- DR. EAGLES: Discussion?

MR. SMITH: Arentt we opening a door here?

Do

I understand it to mean that any member of Kiwanis can come into this room if he wants to?

DR. EAGLES:At the pleasure of this Board.

MR. DAVIS: But

by

this action, this would pre- clude non-members and those interpreted to be non- members.

MR. SMITH: My independent thought is why don't we preclude members also in this thing from getting

into this room during a Board Meeting, and i t would have a l i t t l e ·broader applicatj_on?

DR. EAGLES: This is not a Board Meeting, in the sense of a Board Meeting. This is a hearing. Well, maybe I'm wrong on that, Counsel.

MR. SMITH: The motion talks about a Board Meet- ing ..

MR. BRILL: I would consider this a Board Meet-

ing. You don't take action unless members of the

Board are here.

DR. EAGLES: Yes, I think i t is a Board Meeting.

I retract that.

MR. SMITH:

I am reluctant to putting any motion in that would by implication allow any member in good standing to come into this Board room. I don't think that's the case, and I don't think we ought to imply that. But I am not a lawyer. It just sounds to me like i f the president of our Kiwanis club wanted to

come

in

here

after

we

pass this motion, by

golly

he can come in.

DR.

EAGLES:

Do you follow

thequestion,

Ralph?

MR. KEYES: I think

Mark

is putting a much broader interpretation on i t . I don't see anything in

the

Bylaws here that would prevent any member of Kiwanis International in good standing from coming into the Board Meeting. But if i t will be of any value, I will rephrase i t that insofar as this hearing and Board Meeting is concerned, that participation or ob-

~ervation be restricted to members in good standing of Kiwanis clubs of Kiwanis International.

DR. EAGLES: Is there a second?

---Motion seconded---

DR. EAGLES: Now for discussion~ and perhaps our Counsel would like to speak at this point.

MR. BRILL: I just asked Mr. Keyes if that

wouldn't eliminate me as Counsel from attending this meeting because I am not a member of the Board of Trustees. I feel all of these situations should be

taken into consideration at the time they arise and that the Board otight to be flexible in considering these

matters. ^I agree with

Mr.

Keyes on that matter ..

MR. ROBERTS: Don't you get really what you are driving at if you say

⁰

at the invitation of the Board"?

In other words, no one appears before this Board unless it is at the invitation of this Board. Right?

MR. KEYES: ^Not in connection with a hearing of this kind, because this is not an invitation. We

merely gave them an opportunity to appear here and put in an appearance at this hearing, pursuant to the

Notices. It is not an invitation to attend. They didn't have to be here.

MR. ROBERTS: Maybe npermissionn would be a better

w

or d th an

n

in v it at

i

on • "

MR. BRILL: As I understand it, the Board has

taken the position there is a definite violation of

the terms and conditions of the Constitution sofar

as admission of members into membership in Kiwanis

International, and in my opinion the Board can take

action without permitting a hearing. I don't see any- thing in the Constitution and Bylaws which permits

a hearing, and I think the action is entirely voluntary as far as the Board is concerned. It is an optional thing. They can have this hearing if they so desire.

You are showing consideration, and you are saying, ''If you have got a defense, come in and make it."

MR. STURCH: Would this be setting a legal precedent for the future?

MR. BRILL: I think it would be. It could be argued this is part of the record. You are having a transcript made of the proceedings here and, therefore, they could refer back to those comments and decisions and conditions and say back in so and so you permitted that; why not permit

i t

now! There is that danger.

I don't say that definitely, but tt could be.

DR. EAGLES: Is there anything about our recognition of the right of the accused, so to

speak? In other words, we are accusing this woman of not being a member.

MR. KEYES: We are not accusing her. We are just

not recognizing her as being a member. There is no

accusation involved. The accusation is against the

Great Neck club for ignoring the provisions of the

Constitution and Bylaws.

MR. MERRIDEW: President Bill and I met with Don Siegel just before

we came in here

in order to clarify what the situation was and, Bill~ i t ' s

my

recollection he referred to this lady as a non-member since we

had returned the dues' check which they tried to send.

DR. EAGLES: I didn't

get what he was saying.

MR. MERRIDEW: I

think

he

used

the term

they realized she was a non-member, and the concern I

have -- believe

me, I am

not anxious

to have

this

lady

present but from

a

press standpoint

we

are far better off if we can see our way clear to allow her to observe if he keeps her to the promise which he said he would get from her, but I don't know whether he has i t or not. And President Bill asked him i f she

doesn't keep that promise, what do we do then? And he said., "I will personally ask her to leave. rr

Now this is the concern I have.

MR. DAVIS:

If I may speak, I share that view.

I feel that by our own action here we may be impugning the good name of Kiwanis insofar as the press reports of this are concerned, and I hate to add

any

in-

gredient which would give substance to the unfavorable

press which would result.

MR. KEYES: May I take respectful opposition to

both.Reg

and Roy. We are talking about impugning the

good name of Kiwanis. I think

if

we do anything which dilutes the effect of the vote of the House of

Delegates in Montreal, we are impugning the judgments anddecisions of those delegates. If we are talking about impugning, I would be concerned about impugning as a result of our actions.

MR.

SCHNEIDER: I have a definite view on this and would be in support of

Ralph.

I

can't

possibly imagine anything we can do worse than having this

woman taken out of this room, which is a possibility.

I can see that in the headlines real good. We are obligated to listen to members but have no obligation to listen

to

people outside of Kiwanis International;

and i f we allow her in, we are implying that we are not sure whether she is a member. She has asked merely

f&r

permission, and I think our answer ought to be

no because this is restricted to members of Kiwanis International, and stop there.

MR. POWELL: We are going to get a bad press out of this regardless of what happens. It will be only a matter of degree. Bad press is not going to be in-

itiated from anybody in this room. It will be initiated from the opposition~ and i t will be bad. So I am con-

cerned about the press, but letting her or not letting her in this room will have no effect on that, in my

opinion.

I

am against her being in here.

MR. MERRIDEW: I would only add one point that was brought up. Mr. Siegel said he did not bring this

woman.

She came here on her own, and

i t

may well be

she is here in order to be barred from the door

and then go to the press and say she came all the way from New York and she was not admitted. Isn't that the way i t was put?

DR. EAGLES: That is correct.

MR. KEYES: Eleven days ago a letter was sent to Mr. Siegel advising him that no woman would be permitted

to

attend this meeting.

MR. MERRIDEW: Correct. I just want to make sure

all the

information

is

on the table.

MR. SMITH: I

agree with Stan and the opposition.

Does

thie

Board have a responsibility to an individual member or does this Board only have a responsibility to a club of Kiwanis International? I had always thought that we had responsibility to the club and that i f this lady or anyone else is not a qualified

being here. Am I right or wrong about us controlling Kiwanis clubs or not?

MR. BRILL: I don't see how we can take that position because you are certainly responsible to the members.

MR. SMITH: My point is that we are sitting in judgment as to whether the charter of this Kiwanis club will be removed or not. We are not sitting here saying whether the President of this Kiwanis club will be put out of Kiwanis. We are plainly and simply con- sidering the fact whether this club is going to have its charter lifted.

MR. BRILL: If the club is going to have its charter lifted, i t is due to the action taken

by

one or more members of the club individually or callee- tively.

MR. SMITH':

But if the person we are talking about does not represent the club, then they have no part.

MR. BRILL: I agree with that, but you said our

loyalty ls to the club and· not to the individual mem-

bers of the club. This woman is not a member of the

club. Therefore, whether·we referred to the club or

case.

MR. SMITH: So she has no business being here~

MR. BILL: That's

obvious.

MR. SMITH: I move the obvious.

MR. STURCH: Would the motion as stated eliminate Great Neck's counsel?

MR. KEYES: ^{He is a}

^member

^of

the Kiwanis

club.

DR. EAGLES: They would be entitled to have their counselor here in

any

event.

MR. DELF: Would there be any merit in consider- ing receiving her informally when the Board session isn't on?

DR. EAGLES: There would be no advantage to

it.

MR. DELF: No advantage to her, but i t would be courteous so she could not say she had been turned away.

MR.

BRILL: As a matter of fact, i f I may say some- thing. Mr. Keyes and I did discuss the question of whether or not i t wouldn't be good policy on our part to avoid as much dissension as possible, to create as much good will as we possibly could under the circumstances, and possibly permit this

lady

to come in and observe with the understanding, as presented

earlier, that she would have nothing to say. This

might create some good will. Somebody referred to the newspapers and press. It would take the teeth out of the situation. She could say she sat in at the meet- ing. I am not proposing this be done. We ju~tcon- sidered i t as one of our objectives whether this was good or whether it was bad. Personally, I am in

favor of a peaceful approach rather than one that would cause dissension and open an opportunity tofily we were unfair. It is something to be considered. There is

something to be said on both sides of the question.

No doubt about that.

DR. EAGLES: I will say in support of ~hat you have just said -- I didn't say I was supporting it that Mr. Siegel impressed us with his remarks that he is not here to create trouble. He is a man that seemed to be somewhat considerate. Now, of course, he can change his attitude as soon as he walks through that door, but that I will say.

MR. ROBERTS: It just appe& s to me that if someone without an invitation would travel a thou- sand miles at their own expense to come, they do i t for a purpose. And I am really wondering if we

wouldn't take the air out of their sails and throw

that purpose out the door if you let them in as an ob- server instead of arguing with them and saying "you can•t come in." I don't know anything they can do or not do that would disturb us. What we are here for is a hearing, and I take it most of us will be listening and not talking~ And quite frankly, when these people do go home, some good might come out of this

woman's at least not being able to say she was treated other than as a lady.

MR. BADSKEY: I believe you stated you were not

sure whether she is a member, whether they are consider- ing her as a member.

DR. EAGLES: There is a consideration that, as I gather i t from interpretation, that they considered her a member until such time as we sent the dues back.

MR. MERRIDEW: There are five women who were taken in

by

the club since October 1. These women were listed on the dues payment, and we refunded the amount for those five women. The check went back, and the date was mentioned, and he commented, if I remember correctly, that since that date, of course, she is a

non-member.

If I may, Mr. President, I will follow up

on the answer to the question that was asked of why she

would come all this distance just to sit and listen.

Well, his answer was she said she wanted to be able to say she was here and to see how he handled the presen- tation. That was his answer.

MR. STURCH: Doesn't your letter to that club specif1 a representative of the club, or what did it say?

MR. MEiRRIDEW: It said.,"We understand you will be

the official spokesman for the Great Neck club and that you will be accompanied

by

three or four of your own club members. As you are fully aware., the position of the

International Board in this entire matter is based upon delegate action taken at the International Convention in Montreal rejecting women as members

of

the organi- zation. Therefore, attendance at the April 27th meet- ing will also be in accordance with that same delegate action. This means., of course,

no women will be ad-

mitted to the hearing. This will also confirm that this is a closed meeting between a member club of Kiwanis International and the full Board of Trustees of Kiwanis International."

MR. STURCH: It seems to me to allow that lady in would be a contradiction to what that letter says.

That letter says "members only .. " I feel that this would be a violation. And if she comes in here,

this letter, could i t be held in Court -- she